England v USA
by nolefansam on Jun 14, 2010 2:06 PM BST
52 comments
I have a few thoughts and want to get other readers opinions.
Number 1: I am glad we did not sign James Milner. I heard rumors that he hadn't trained much and wasn't feeling well but that is no excuse to get abused by Steve Cherundolo that badly. He showed a complete inability to stop or even slow the US's attack down their right side. Capello made the correct move in removing him after half an hour because he was due for a second yellow before halftime.
Number 2: England dominated the game and should have won 3-0, at least. The US had nothing in the final 3rd with the exception of Altidore taking advantage of an unfit looking Carragher. Against a quality attacking team, England's back 4 will be in serious trouble and they don't have Tim Howard in goal to bail them out like the US.
Number 3: The US's ability to absorb and hold up against constant pressure is unreal. This game was similar to the Confed Cup match against Spain where the US's back 4 played solid and Howard saved everything imaginable. To be fair though, England didn't help themselves with poor finishing straight at Howard.
Number 4: Gerrard looked good playing deeper and made some solid tackles. I thought he was easily the best player for England(even without the goal) and I didn't see an issue with he and Lampard at all. The fact that Lampard was practically non-existent was more an issue with him and not the midfield pairing with Gerrard.
That's all I've got. Please feel free to disagree or even tell me I'm clueless if you like.
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How much of a factor was Milner's recent illness?
Hard to know but he did get abused by Cherundolo. Steve had a great game all around, but Milner made him look even better…
The US lucked out to have those open chances fall to both SWP and Heskey …
Capello thought Milner was fit enough to start so you have to assume he was close to 100%
Steve’s game was completely different after SWP came on. I don’t blame him at all but the pace of Phillips obviously was a big concern so he didn’t attack nearly as much.
Heskey’s in particular was bad. Did he think he could put it through Howard’s chest? Awful finish.
Heskey's finishing is bad
but he isn’t out there for his finishing. He held the ball up well, layed on Gerrard’s goal and was all around a handful for the defense. England were just a little unlucky. All of those chances and no real grade A scoring chances would fall to Rooney.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
He's a Premier League striker.
He has no excuse and has to do better than that regardless of his ability to find the back of the net on a regular basis.
His holdup play was, without a doubt, very good.
I think the Milner descision was disgraceful
How can you play him when you have been unwell. His body can’t get rid of a virus and play in a wolrd cup.
The descision to not bring Joe Cole on is another. He is our (England) most creative player, apart from Rooney. Why not bring him on when you need something.
A for Rob Green….. I can’t find the words to be fair.
by Sweet science on Jun 14, 2010 3:11 PM BST up reply actions
I figured there was no need to comment on Green.
I forgot Joe Cole was on the bench. He would have made a lot more sense. I think Adam Johnson would have done well in that role if Fabio had included him in the 23 too. SWP never goes left and they needed crosses not winger cutting into the middle.
What are your thoughts on the US performance, Sweet Science?
by nolefansam on Jun 14, 2010 3:19 PM BST via mobile up reply actions
I was pretty hammered
But from what I gathered you did well. Solid, kept Rooney quiet, just what you need to do to get a result which is what you did.
by Sweet science on Jun 15, 2010 9:31 AM BST up reply actions
Maybe cause I am a United fan I am biased
but Tim Howard is garbage. If England hadn’t shot right at him all the time we would have scored 4 or 5. On long shots he is never close. Rooney and Lampard both would have scored if they had hit the target. Howard was never getting to those shots.
I think England need to switch to a 4-5-1 with Rooney as a lone striker. Joe Cole on one wing and Lennon on the other. Let Lampard and Gerrard get forward to support Rooney and leave Barry, or Carrick, back as a holding midfielder.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
that is excalty what I would do
If fabio don’t play Joe Cole from now on I will be disgusted
by Sweet science on Jun 15, 2010 9:32 AM BST up reply actions
You're biased on Howard.
Dude is solid and there isn’t much disputing that.
I agree 100% with your assessment in the second paragraph though.
He may be solid
but he isn’t world class and he doesn’t have the mentality, in my opinion, for the big matches. He has talked in the past about being afraid of making mistakes at United all the time. That’s troubling if you are an American fan and you need a big save in a big game.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
See Spain summer '09 in South Africa.
He exercised those demons in that match without a doubt.
Yeah I just
don’t see the Confederations Cup as a big deal. I don’t think there is pressure in those matches even 1/10th of the pressure he would feel in a World Cup match of importance like in the quarter finals or something.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
Confed Cup=World Cup?
Not even close but name another game that he has played in, with the national team, that had as much pressure or scrutiny. The coverage in the US prior to that game was A LOT bigger than anything I have ever seen in the States. It was a pretty big deal here.
Would he have known that?
And would he have cared? Do the players think it is a big deal? To me I doubt they really care about that event they just go so that when the World Cup comes around they are part of the squad. I’ve seen Tim Howard play bad in pressure situations too many times to be convinced by a Confed cup game.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
Howard was the difference on Saturday.
I can’t think of another keeper in the EPL who is clearly better than Howard.
Cech and Van der Sar were a couple of years ago. Now I’d put him in a group at the top with EVdS, Shay Given and Pepe Reina.
Los Angeles is like Manchester. There is a red team that wins championships and a blue team that doesn't.
I'd still put
VDS, Reina, and maybe even Hart ahead of him.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jun 14, 2010 11:27 PM BST up reply actions
agreed
Shay Given without a doubt, Rob Gre….. No still to early for Jokes
VDS was the best keeper in the prem last year, the fella was exceptional
by Sweet science on Jun 15, 2010 9:35 AM BST up reply actions
Shay Given
always looks bad against United or at least he did this season. I can think of several goals I thought he could have done better on. Maybe he is good the rest of the time but I only watch City when they play United or look like they are going to lose.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
trust me
Shay Given is a top top keeper.
Me being from England gets to see extensive highlights from most games ( well all of them, but some i just pass up). One thing that does detract from him is his height, he’s small for a keeper and can struggle with crosses. But his shop stopping is second to none.
by Sweet science on Jun 15, 2010 11:52 PM BST up reply actions
David James?
Not short but still struggles with high balls but is an excellent shot stopper.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Jun 16, 2010 12:30 AM BST up reply actions
yeah but they struggle for different reasons
Given struggles because his height stops him from coming from crosses and clearing out the forwards. Balls that come under his cross bar and around the six yard box, being small makes it more difficult to claim them.
David James’s judgement of what crosses to claim and what to leave makes him poor at crosses.
by Sweet science on Jun 16, 2010 11:10 AM BST up reply actions
I'd agree
IMO he’s the best keeper in the premier league right now.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
VDS is better than Given
better at controlling his area, marshalling his defense, controlling the areal threat. I would take VDS over every other keeper not named Riena.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
In my opinion anyway
not to say that Given is poor in any way. He is a top quality keeper. One guy I think that gets overlooked is Schwarzer and the other one is Jussi Jaskalainen.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
I have to say, those are two keepers I have seen very little of.
I really can’t give much of an informed opinion on either of them. Hugo Lloris (obviously not in the EPL) is one that I saw a few times this year that really impressed me. He’d be a heck of a good buy for anybody in England.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
Agreed. JJ is consistently a very good keeper, but he never plays behind a decent defense, so he always gets peppered with shots and good chances.
by Vancouverguy on Jun 18, 2010 5:56 AM BST up reply actions
2 years ago I'd be inclined to agree.
Right now I can’t think that he’s really better than Given. I got to see Given play this year quite a bit (finally got directtv), and I have to say I was impressed. He didn’t have much of a defense in front ofhim, and their midfield pushed forward fr to often, but Given routinely covered up mistakes. It would be interesting to see him with the team United or Chelsea can run out there. Cech has fallen a long way IMO as well.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
What does that say about City eh?
All that money spent on their team and still a shitty D.
Given is very good. I will say that.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
I don't know what it is
about Reina. Maybe its because he plays for the shit side of liverpool, but iv never rated him as a top keeper. He’s good, but I don’t think he’s amazing. Maybe im just biased. And yeah id still take VDS over any keepr in the PL
by Sweet science on Jun 16, 2010 11:12 AM BST up reply actions
I'd probably take Hart over anyone at this point.
He was beyond fantasitic this season, and at 23 thats pretty rare.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
He was also alot younger and less seasoned in his time at United.
Goalies in their early 20’s are usually nowhere near their best. He was also adjusting to the premier league from MLS, which is a huuuuge jump to make at a club with the expectations of United. Howard is just now coming into the age where he should be dominating, and he’s gained valuable experience at Everton and intenatonally. I really feel he’s starting to develop into a world class player…he’s certainly better than any of the England keepers right now.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
Like I said I would rather have Joe Hart
and Robert Green, despite his massive error, is a very good keeper. I will never be able to get on board with Howard. Just don’t see him as being that good. Never have. He was at United for 4 years and never showed that he had what it took to be a top class keeper. I mean Roy Carroll kept him out of the team most of the time. Roy Carroll!!! The worst United keeper since Taibi.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
I think I mentally blacked out those years in between Schmichael and VDS. It’s been a black hole in my love for the team.
by Vancouverguy on Jun 18, 2010 5:58 AM BST up reply actions
I really don't think England deserved to win by more than 1-0.
The first goal was very nice, but other than that they should be embarrased by their finishing. They really didn’t do much to challenge Howard, so I can’t see how they deserved any more goals. Had they put some good shots on goal and challenged him, I’d be inclined to agree…they didn’t though, they really only deserved one goal.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
You can't say their finishing was bad AND that they didn't deserve to score more
based on chances created they deserved to win and should have scored more. It should have finished at least 1-0 and if England had had a bit more luck or earned a bit more luck it would have been a bigger margin.
Everyone is going on and on about how good Howard was and how many saves he made yet not saying that England played well. It’s a little faulty. Either England deserved more goals and played well or Howard didn’t have to be very good.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
If they had made tough shots that Howard had to work at, I'd agree.
He didn’t have to do anything to get in front of most of those though. They shot right at him. Based on what England did with their opportunities, I just don’t see how they deserved more. It wasn’t bad breaks or exceptional goalkeeping that kept them at 1, it was awful shooting.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
Yeah well that's how Football works
based on possession, quality of chances, pressure in the attacking third amount of chances created England deserved to win the match and to win by a wider margin. They didn’t finish those chances and their keeper made a terrible mistake which is why they didn’t win and win by more but that doesn’t mean they deserved a 1-1 draw on the balance of play.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
That's like saying the US deserved a few more goals if only their crossing had been better.
If a team is doing things very well and just gets beat by an exceptional performance or bad break, I feel they deserve a few more (or less) goas usually. Englands effort on saturday on their shots really didn’t deserve another goal. Except for the goal, none of their efforts really required Howard to do anything to stop them. Thats just poor final balls, which are entirely englands fault.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
Talk about what England "Deserved" all you want
but the fact of the matter is, they still ended up tying 1-1. I don’t care how many goals they “should have had”, they only put 1 in the back of the net, which is pretty embarrassing considering the amount of talent and depth on the England squad. Then a goalless draw to Algeria is even more embarrassing. All the goals that England “should” have had leaves them with 1 goal, and 2 points heading into the final match that could eliminate England…
-DD-
Almost as embarrassing
as having to salvage a 2-2 draw with Slovenia. I can’t wait for Algeria to beat the US tomorrow so all the American fans will shut up about England. Talk about an inferiority complex.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
Seriously?
You run this site and have that much of a bias? Be better than that.
Funny
US didn’t get beat by Algeria, and if my math is correct, finished above “the mighty” England who is so much more superior. The US showed heart and resilience in a win that will give it much needed momentum against Ghana.
-DD-
by Dagestadd02 on Jun 23, 2010 10:06 PM BST up reply actions
It's hard to take England fans complaining about obnoxious American soccer fans.
Sort of like listening to a Yankee fan bitch about the Cubs spending money like it’s going out of style
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
No sense talking here.
I’m going to this site.
http://www.dailysoccerfix.com/
Hopefully they don’t have a skewed view of the game.
No worries
England will choke against Germany. Again. On penalty kicks.
It’s like fate. Not that America will go much farther, but hey, we’re the U.S., not England.
Hup Holland Hup!
Wow
When I said choke, I didn’t even foresee a choke job that bad.
Shame. I was hoping Rooney would find his form, although I do admit I cared for England a lot less once Rio was out of the tournament.
But, what can you expect when most of the guys on your squad have endured a grueling season without break, while the rest of the world has a winter break?
For the record, I don't really think Howard was all that exceptional on Saturday.
He dealt with the easy stuff, but didn’t really have a prayer against Gerrards shot. He wasn’t really tested very much, he did pretty much as expected.
Reyes, Thole, Wright, Beltran, Bay, Davis, Martinez, Tejada...
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